#4 Will Not Skill

Show Notes

We all have parts of our job that we LOVE doing and some parts that we don't like doing... But, what do you do when you have an employee/team member that has the SKILL to do something, but not the WILL. How do you handle the objection and coach them? On this episode, Chantel, Heather, and Brian discuss this issue and share stories from their careers that can help you along the way!

For more resources, visit https://www.reallifeleaders.com/podcast

Have a leadership question you want answered? Email [email protected] and you might even be in an episode!


Chantel: Hey guys, welcome to The Real Life Leadership podcast where we share real life stories from real life leaders for you to be a better leader. I'm joined today by Heather Roemmich and Brian ...

Brian: [Dell'Olio 00:00:14]. You almost got it.

Chantel: I just had a brain freeze, sorry Brian. I just forgot your last name. Welcome. This week, Heather, what are we talking about?

Heather: All right, so today we are going to talk about Will Not Skill. Basically, you know, we all have parts of our job that we love and then we have some parts that we don't love so much. Today, we're going to talk about the will to do those tasks.

Chantel: Yeah, and there's just certain things that it's like you just got to do it. Nobody has a job where they absolutely love every piece of it. There's parts of it you're just like it's part of the job, it's part of what we have to do and so I want to talk about an example that we had with our managing partner in our company.

Heather: Yeah, let's talk about that. One of the things that the managing partners have to do, some parts of their job is do fun. They get to go to Top Golf events, take out their agents to lunches and they get to do a lot of fun stuff. Then there's some parts that are not so much fun which are doing recruiting calls. It's just part of what keeps their office alive. They have to make a certain amount of calls each day. We had an instance where one of our managing partners wasn't hitting their goals. When we went to do their one-on-one with them we asked them, "Hey, what's going on? We see you're not meeting your goals. Are you making your calls?" Their answer was, "Well no, I don't really love to make calls because I'm better in person.

Chantel: Yeah, they were just like I'm a people person.

Brian: Who hasn't heard that before, right? Where there's some part of their job and they just have some reason why it's not getting done.

Heather: Right, but the problem is you've got to make the call to get in front of the person.

Brian: Right, that's step 1.

Heather: Step 1. That's why it's the basic founding blocks of that position. Basically, what ... The person had the skill, like they totally could make the calls and do a great job on them. They did not have the will. They didn't want to make the calls, and so that's where we had to decide is it a skill issue or is it a will issue. Then, when you have those employees, what do you do? When they have the skill to do it, but they don't have the will to do it.

Chantel: The first time he came to me and he was like, "You know, I'm a people person. You know, I like to be in front of people." This was my response. I said to him, "Well, here's the goal, you have to get in front of five people to do a one-on-one meeting with them for recruiting. I don't care how you do it, right? If you want to go to open houses and visit them and get them to come in to do a one-on-one with you, that's great. I don't care how you do it, but here's the bottom line. If at the end of the week you don't have five people I'm going to go back to you and say then we already know the formula that does work. 100 calls usually will get you about five people to get in front of you. If 100 calls doesn't work, then guess what? We're going to make 200 calls because we already know that method of calling people, it's a numbers game. You're going to get a certain amount of people in front of you."

Chantel: If you want to do it another method, by all means do it. But at the end of the day, you have to have set goals and they have to be leading indicators, not lagging indicators.

Heather: Right.

Chantel: Which we'll go over on another episode.

Heather: Right, and that's really what we've tried to do is figure out a recipe for success. At the end of the day, if you hit your goals I'm not going to look back at your action steps and say, "Oh, well I'm really glad that you got five agents in, but why did you only make 83 calls?" Well, that's fine. Right, it doesn't matter.

Chantel: If you make 83 calls and you still had five people in front of you, then fantastic.

Heather: Right.

Chantel: What do we do when we have an employee team member like this. How do we kind of coach them? What do we say? What's the next step for that?

Brian: I think one of the questions is, you know, how do you first know if it's skill versus will, right? When you have somebody who's not meeting their goals and you look at that what are you saying? How are you evaluating it's skill versus will?

Heather: Yeah, and so one of the questions I would ask them is, "Why do you not like making calls? What is it that you don't love about it? Is it because you don't know what to say so you're not getting the response you're looking for?" I would say, "All right, first let me do 20 calls with you. Call, let's do these calls together so I can hear what you're saying because I think if I can make you more successful in it you'll have the will to do it. I think you're either afraid to do it because of that, but if you just don't want to do it then ..."

Chantel: Well, and this particular person was a very high eye on the discourse. They were a very high eye and what they were having a problem with is when you make these calls we already know out of those 100 calls, you are maybe going to get 10 people to say yes. Part of it is setting up that expectation so that you know hey, if I make 100 calls and I get 10 people to say yes, some people would be like oh my gosh. That's just rejection. I had 90 people who said no.

Chantel: But that's actually, if you get 10 people to say yes, you're winning. You're doing a great job.

Heather: Yeah, and that personality type does not like rejection. They want everyone to love the. They're the life of the party person. It is hard for them to condition theirselves and condition their personality to be able to take that rejection. That's the first step is coaching them. Sitting side-by-side with them and seeing if they can actually, you know, if they improve their skill with will they have the will to do it.

Brian: You're making as a manager or as a leader, you're making an observation as to whether or not what is their skill level at. Where is their skill level? You're able to see in those interactions is there a skill deficiency that we need to work on or they truly do have the skill and if it's not getting done then it's will.

Heather: Right. Then, at the end of the day if they don't have the will then we have another problem because there are certain job requirements that have to be done at certain places. You couldn't go to McDonald's and say, "Okay, I want to work here but I don't want to touch the hamburger." It doesn't work.

Brian: Right.

Chantel: I don't like to touch raw meat. I don't know what it is, like I just don't, the feeling of actually making the burgers I'd rather go and buy the pre [crosstalk 00:06:27]

Brian: It grosses me out.

Chantel: It grosses me out. I don't know why. I'm like I'll pay more, I'll just go by the ones that are already make and we'll put gloves on and throw them on the grill.

Heather: Yeah, so you're not willing to make the patty. That's fine, then you can't be a patty maker. Sorry, that's not the job for you. You have to be something else.

Chantel: Step number 1 that we just went over is setting the right expectation, right?

Heather: Right.

Chantel: If you think you're going to make five calls and five people are going to set an appointment with you now you've got these false expectations so now you're just going to feel like a failure. If we tell you look, out of those 100 calls you're only going to get 10 people to even agree to meet with you, that's actually really good. Now I'm setting the right expectations. That's step 1.

Chantel: Step #2 is observing the skill.

Heather: Right.

Chantel: Like you said, "I'm going to now sit next to you and go okay, let's see if, maybe what you're saying is completely wrong. That's a good point. Let's talk about what works on a call and what doesn't." Some people have said things like, just, they're not the right call. It's like, we know you're not going to be successful because you're saying the worst thing ever. [crosstalk 00:07:42]

Heather: Yeah, they're like hey, this is Heather with ABC Realty and hey, I was calling, you know I know you've never met me before in my life but can we meet for coffee tomorrow?" The person's like, "Uh, I don't even know who you are? Who are you and what are you doing?" You have to like set up a reason why someone would want to meet with you. Like we always say you have to make deposits before you can make a withdrawal. There are a lot of times where they literally are like, "Hey, it's Heather with Chantel Ray. I wanted to see if you could meet tomorrow at 2:00 to see if you'd like to [crosstalk 00:08:10]

Chantel: To see if you want to transfer and come over to my company.

Heather: Yeah, and they're like, "Um, no thanks."

Brian: You're jumping way too far down the line.

Heather: Yeah, so we have to kind of coach them on that and get the right scripts and kind of get that right cadence and dialogue going.

Chantel: That's where we're improving the skill to make sure they're saying the right things, saying it with the right tone. They could also be calling and being like, "Hey, this is Heather ..." They'd be like, "No thanks, don't want to meet with you Mr. Snailbug."

Heather: Yes.

Chantel: Obviously, the third one is just checking the will. I would say the biggest thing that we can tell whether the will is right or not, they always make an excuse that they don't have the time. What they'll say is, "Oh man, I'd love to do it but I've just been so busy doing A, B, C, D, E and F." How do we combat that?

Heather: We say, "Oh, well I'm going to help you with that because it sounds like you have a time blocking issue." What we do is we really sit down and pick a time of day, and I always suggest first thing in the morning because they will put off, put off, put off until they have no time left in the day." I'm like, "All right, let's set a time blocking schedule. We're going to do this from 9:00 to 10:00 you're going to make your 20 calls every day and I'm going to call them with you. We're going to do that together the first three days because consistency creates the pattern."

Heather: When they do it consistently, once you get them on that path, then that excuse is gone. Now they can't use that anymore.

Chantel: Let's do like a coaching session, okay?

Heather: Yeah.

Chantel: Brian, you're going to be the guy who just makes excuses, okay? You're going to be the guy who just makes excuses. Heather, you're going to be the, we call it, the MMP, which is the M-M-P. You're the managing, managing partner. You're the manager of the managing partners. I know it's confusing. We like to be funny so we're like the MMP.

Brian: You're overseeing the leader of multiple offices. Yes.

Chantel: Yes.

Heather: Correct.

Chantel: Okay, so you're overseeing the manager that's not doing what they need to do.

Heather: Yeah.

Brian: That's me.

Heather: That's you.

Chantel: You're the MMP. Brian's the slacker here. We're going to run through that scenario real quick. Here it is, another week where they didn't make the phone calls and didn't hire the recruits.

Heather: Hey Brian, how are you?

Brian: Hey, I'm great, Heather, how are you?

Heather: Good. Hey, you know, I was looking at your goals this week and I wanted to, you know, I noticed you haven't hired anyone yet. I wanted to talk about how many interviews did you actually meet with this week.

Brian: Man, this hiring this is crazy. This week I met with one person.

Heather: Okay.

Brian: It was somebody that I met at an open house that I was going to. It was a great interview, right? I had a great time with them. I think they were serious. They're going to join. They're really not happy with their broker right now. They loved the conversation, they liked me, they want to hear more. I'm excited about that.

Heather: Okay, well I'm glad that went really well. Now let's kind of recap. How many [crosstalk 00:11:12]

Brian: Okay

Chantel: Hold on, I want you to stop right there because here's the one thing that happens a lot of times that I've seen when you're meeting with someone. They're so positive about it, like, see how Brian's ... He's not doing a good job. He's not meeting the expectations, but he's like, "Oh yeah, things are going great," because they're trying to pull you in.

Brian: That's what they're going to do.

Chantel: Then you lose sight of the fact that they're not meeting any of the goals that they're supposed to.

Heather: Yes, yeah. Brian, let's just kind of do a quick recap. How many interviews do we expect you to have each week with a seasoned agent?

Brian: You know, I think it's really supposed to be four to five, right?

Heather: Right, five. Five is the number.

Brian: Okay, okay.

Heather: I like how you kind of moved it a little bit, but five. We expect you to meet with five agents. You only met with one, right?

Brian: Ok, yeah, yeah.

Heather: Okay, so do you see where that might not be working out so well?

Brian: Yeah, the hiring thing is just hard. I just can't get in front of people. I'm much better in person. I love to talk to people one-on-one, face-to-face and I know you guys always say I have to make all these phone calls. I'm just not good on the phone.

Heather: Got it. Okay, so here's what we're going to do. How many phone calls do we say you should make each week?

Brian: About 100.

Heather: Right, 100 so that's how many a day?

Brian: 20

Heather: 20, right? Who doesn't like calling 20 people? Here's the thing that we're going to do. When are you making, I know you say you don't like to make your calls, but let's say in a perfect world you were going to make your calls. When are you going to make them?

Brian: I'm personally the best in the morning. What I find is that I get in the office, my add bin needs help, I'm getting something sorted out, then I've got another group agent class that I'm teaching, I'm solving issues for people, [crosstalk 00:12:45] ...

Heather: Yeah, got it. You're super busy.

Brian: ... before I know it it's 3:30.

Heather: Yeah, I know. Been there done that.

Brian: Yep.

Heather: Here's what we're going to do. Would you be willing for me to come over and help you time block? If we said you from 9:00 to 10:00 Monday through Friday we're going to make those 20 calls, would you be willing for me to come over and help you do that?

Brian: Yeah, I mean, I would love any help that I can get.

Heather: Yes, because what I think is happening is, you're allowing those interruptions to mess up your action steps for the week. I understand that you don't like calling people so what I'd like to do is I'm going to make a couple of calls. I'm going to get us started off so you can kind of here where we're going, and out of those 20 calls I just want us to set one appointment. Do you think that in 20 calls we could probably set one appointment together?

Brian: I mean, I haven't had very good luck with it so if we can try it and we can get one that would be awesome.

Heather: Together. Yes, we're going to do it. I'm going to make sure that there are no interruptions during that hour time block and I'm going to show you how to make sure those don't happen. We're going to set clear expectations with our office, and we're going to make sure that they know that during that hour you are recruiting and you are not going to be disturbed.

Heather: How does tomorrow at 9:00, I'm going to come to your office and we're going to do this together. Does that work for you?

Brian: That works. I'll be there.

Heather: Perfect.

Chantel: Then I think at some point you just have to have that conversation where you actually say, you know what? Once you've gone over the skill with them and then you say, "Listen, I feel like we've already checked. You've got the skill down. You know what you're doing but you're actually not making the calls." Then, we've had people who've said that they are making the calls. Then what do you do? Because you're like well yeah, and we kind of think are they really making them?

Heather: Yeah, so in that situation, so that's like, "Oh yeah, I have the will. I actually make 150 calls a week, right?" Here's what I do in that situation. "You've got the will, right?" "Oh yeah, I'll call all day long. You just give me a phone." Let's talk about the skill. Then I'm going to say, "That's great. Obviously there's something wrong in your scripting and what you're saying when you call so we're going to do this together." Then I'm going to go and listen. I'm going to sit side-by-side. I'm going to actually listen to them do the calls because they're either A, not making those calls like they said. Or B, they are totally flopping on when they're calling.

Heather: If I can improve their skill then they're going to be fine if they have the will to do it. That's when we're talking about do they have skill or will. Then, you kind of have [crosstalk 00:14:59]

Chantel: Which would you rather have?

Heather: I'd rather have somebody who has the will that I can coach them up on their skill.

Brian: Much easier.

Heather: 100%.

Chantel: Absolutely. All right, well that's what we're talking about today will or skill? Which one is it?

Click to Show More

Close Menu