#17 How To Build an Authentic Community Online

Show Notes

Why is it important to build an authentic online community? What are the benefits of it for your business or church? Find out in this episode! We've covered this a little before, but today we want to dive a little deeper into the subject. Follow Thomas Lane: https://www.facebook.com/ThomasLaneVA/  

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Transcript

Chantel Ray:                 Welcome to the Real Life Leadership podcast, where we share real life stories from real life leaders to help you become a better leader in your organization. I'm Chantel Ray, and today I'm joined with Heather Roemmich, COO of Chantel Ray Real Estate, and also one of our favorite pastors, and now co-host, Thomas Lane from Ascent Church. Thomas Lane:               Yes. It's official. Thank you. Chantel Ray:                 Yes. Today we are going to be hearing mostly from Thomas Lane because he is an absolute guru on this topic, like guru, guru. And we want to talk about the importance of building an authentic online community, and why it's so important for leaders. First, let me ask you, do you have a Facebook page, Instagram page, Twitter? Thomas Lane:               I used to do it all, but definitely simplified it. Definitely right now, Facebook big, and Instagram. And when I say Facebook, I don't have a Facebook profile. It's a page. Chantel Ray:                 Okay. And why is that? Thomas Lane:               Well, to be honest with you, based on my job, the page, Facebook is really pushing right now Messenger. If you have a Facebook app on your phone they really want you to have Messenger with it. They're really into that, for whatever reason. Which is just a way to essentially text someone. I think you can do a phone. I think you can do a video. You can do a lot. They're really, really pushing this. I had a profile, and I think you can have it up to 5,000 friends on there. I don't even know what I was at, but people were using that as a way to text me essentially anytime. And people weren't trying to be rude, but it was hard. I mean, people from 5:00 in the morning someone would text me, even if it's midnight, 1:00 am. “Hey, when's that thing start?” “Hey, what was that reference on Sunday?” “Hey, how do I get to the website?” Just little things. Rather than them go to the website or ask their team leader, their group leader, whoever, they were just coming right to me. It just got to be too much. And the page allows me to have a presence on Facebook where I can share sermons, updates, news announcements, anything, but you can't message me personally, which is great. Chantel Ray:                 Now, let's talk about, the only thing about that page is that does it select ... With the profile, you know how you see more people's information than you do from the page. So that is a downside of that. Now, to solve that problem could you develop a profile page that you posted, and then delete the ... not have the Messenger. Thomas Lane:               I tried to do that. I could not find anywhere. And I thought I was just not smart enough to find it, but I don't think ... Unless Facebook has changed. The good and frustrating thing with these things is they're constantly changing. Instagram Story didn't exist probably two years ago, a year and a half ago, and now it is the thing. And that's just a new feature on Instagram. It's not a new app, it's just a new thing within it. What's crazy is you can get the hang of it, the algorithm changes, the local change, and you almost have to completely restrategize how you're using and what you're using it for constantly. And there's no book on this, you know what I mean? Because people were kind of learning in real time. Chantel Ray:                 All right. So talk to us about how Messenger works on Instagram. You just told us, “Hey. That was too annoying for them to reach out to us on Messenger with Facebook.” But can someone message you on Instagram? Thomas Lane:               On Instagram I think- Heather:                       Yeah. They can slide into your DMs, they call it. Thomas Lane:               They can slide into me ... I think if you have a private account they can not unless you follow them, which I love that. And I don't know if that's true, but I'm pretty certain that's the ... I think you get a little ... You have a column, it's your messages, and then you have one where you can accept them, deny them. You can do all that, which is nice. Chantel Ray:                 That is really nice. Thomas Lane:               It gives you a little bit of privacy, which I never felt from Facebook. Chantel Ray:                 Yes, that's great. Recently I heard a statistic that a quarter of the Earth's population is on Facebook, and three out of every four people in America are on Facebook. Heather:                       And I have something interesting to say about that. Chantel Ray:                 Okay. Heather:                       My brother-in-law just got back from a mission trip to Lesotho, Africa, which is in the valley. They're their own civilization. They don't have modern day luxuries. But they do have phones, and they have Facebook. And that is one way that we are able to communicate with them when we're back in the states to check in on how they're doing and people they've ministered to. I think that's just crazy. Even the poorest populations have Facebook. Chantel Ray:                 Now, do you ask people at the church, do you say, “How did you hear about us? How'd you hear about us [crosstalk 00:04:34]" Thomas Lane:               Every time I meet someone that's what I ask them. That's one of my first questions. Chantel Ray:                 Okay. And what would you say would be like 20% this, 30% this? What would you say the number is for social media and little breakdown of that? Thomas Lane:               I would say 75% to 80% social media. Then I would say maybe 15-20 a friend brought them. There's some overlap because sometimes they heard about it from a friend via social media. You know what I mean? But the vast majority, it's not even close. Chantel Ray:                 It's basically just either social media or a friend invited me. Thomas Lane:               Hands down. Easily those are the most powerful forces to get people out. Chantel Ray:                 Do you have somebody on staff that that's their only job is social media? Thomas Lane:               No. Weston Hanna, he's our creative director. He oversees production, if you see a video, YouTube, podcast, and social media's a big part of that, design. He oversees all of that. A big chunk of his job is social, which is wildly important. That's our outreach. That's our connectivity. I mean, church is an hour. We want to stay in front of people and stay connected to encourage, to inspire, to give updates, to keep the conversation going we stay all week long. And social media's the way to do that. Chantel Ray:                 Do you have a volunteer team where you say- Thomas Lane:               I do, yes. Chantel Ray:                 Do you have these people like, "Your entire job is to do social media for our church?" Thomas Lane:               Yes. Chantel Ray:                 And how many people are on that team? Thomas Lane:               I think it fluctuates. We probably have about three or four. It takes a specific skillset. Everyone really thinks they're really good at social media, and then sometimes you find out it's not exactly someone's sweet spot. But I would say about three or four rotating. But yes, some people just respond to people. That's all they do. Someone shoots a message, “When does that start?” “What time is that?” “What's your belief on this?” They just hit them our response. Some on Sunday's their job is to do photography, which goes on Instagram Story, or they'll just capture a ton of photos, edit them, and then post them for us to use throughout the week. So yeah, that's a huge role, and it's a very, very ... you have to have a very unique touch to make it look good. It's not, “Can you use a camera?” It's, “Can you match our design? Can you match our color scheme, our font scheme? Does it feel like us?” Because people can tell. Heather:                       You're not a brick and mortar. Thomas Lane:               No, no. Heather:                       So this is your billboard. Thomas Lane:               Essentially that is your hand shake. That is our front door. That is our church sign so to speak, it's that. Heather:                       And more and more businesses, churches are going virtual, and this is their billboard now. Thomas Lane:               Unbelievably so. I'm really interested in the number of people who would come to our church without looking at the social media first. It can't be 5%. That's what people do. It's like you're going to go to a new restaurant or a concert you look first. That's what you do. That's people [inaudible 00:07:14] It's their first impression. Heather:                       And they want to see if people look like them. Thomas Lane:               That is the question. “Do I fit in here? Would a person like me fit in at a place like this? Would a person like me do something like this?” That's hard. That's really hard to essentially explain what Sunday feels like. Heather:                       Your culture. Thomas Lane:               Yes. You have to put your culture on Instagram, and that's hard. But the team does a really good job. Chantel Ray:                 But how do you manage that team? Because if you think about it ... Does everyone have a login? Do they have to get approval before they post? What does that even look like? Because what if someone was like- Heather:                       That's too many hands in the pot. Chantel Ray:                 ... just putting like, “Hey.” Heather:                       I mean, there has to be a rule. Thomas Lane:               It's happened before. "Delete immediately. Wait, what is that? No." Heather:                       Or somebody says, “I don't like that picture of me. Take that down." Thomas Lane:               These are people we trust, and these are people ... It's not they show up day one and we're giving them all the access. These are people who've earned it and been there and kind of proven themselves. With a post, really that's just a staff thing. If it's an Instagram Story, usually that's just quote from a song, or quote from the sermon, or quote from scripture, or a picture. That's easier because that's more of a feel. You're not really making a statement so to speak. You're just taking a picture of someone smiling. That's definitely simpler. But when it comes down to words we're careful. Chantel Ray:                 Okay. You created boundaries where you said, “Okay. If you want to be on our social media team here are the boundaries.” Now, are they written down? Thomas Lane:               They are. Chantel Ray:                 And saying it once- Thomas Lane:               And Weston coaches them well. Weston has to come back and say, "Hey, I removed this one because X, Y and Z," or, "This didn't feel like us." And I'll do it too. Sometimes I'll just message him and say, "Hey, that's not us," or, "That's not what we're trying to convey." But it's definitely a process. If we had the ability, ideally everything gets looked at. But that's just not the pace of life. We don't have that ability. So there's some trust there. But people have to have thick thin if you post something and it doesn't fit to be okay with giving it the boot. Chantel Ray:                 Yeah. Well, and I think the other thing that makes that clearer is creating a Facebook or Instagram or social media manual- Thomas Lane:               You have to have it. Chantel Ray:                 ... that clearly says, like you said, “Here's exactly what we want. These are clips from the sermon. Here's a picture of a family smiling. Here's this, this, this, this, and this." Thomas Lane:               Even when to post it, what font to use, all that stuff, filters. Yeah, it's a lot. Chantel Ray:                 Hashtags. Thomas Lane:               Yeah. It's a lot. Chantel Ray:                 Jesus wasn't locked up in the temple and just preaching and not doing anything else. And so how would you say you have been intentional about building community through social media? Thomas Lane:               That's a great question. Church is just an hour, obviously. So we have to take really a lot of intentional time and resources to make that happen. I mean, on Sundays the first thing you'll hear from me is our mission statement, and then I'm immediately saying, “Let's connect on social media.” If people do one thing on a Sunday that have never been there before, that may be the step I would have them do. Even before filling out a card I would say, "Let's connect on social media,” because it builds that community. I think to have community you have to be real. I think to have community you have to respond. One of my pet peeves is when someone asks a question. That'll get me hot. And then three days goes by they don't get a response. I want 24 hours the latest. I love if it's 20 minutes, personally. But you can't have community unless there's a dialog. I want someone to be able to say, “I love that song,” and us to send, “Here's the YouTube video.” “Hey, what was that quote.” Boom, "Here's the link.” I think that is how you create community. We have some Facebook groups too. Our small groups have groups. Our teams, our volunteer teams, our serve teams, our A teams, they have groups. There's a woman's group that some of the ladies started, which probably has two or three hundred people in it. Just for prayer, for encouragement, for support, for, “Hey, I have a toddler, you have a toddler.” Chantel Ray:                 And do you talk about that on Sunday, about those different groups that they can join? Thomas Lane:               Not too much. The challenge we're running into, and I think every time you grow you run into this challenge, is having a healthy amount of communication. You don't want it to feel like a billboard. You know what I mean? Social media is a relationship accelerate, not a broadcast tool. And a lot of people use it as a broadcast tool. This sale, this opportunity, if you do that it's so easy to unfollow someone. It's really hard to get someone to connect with you, and for you to stay in their feed. It's really easy for someone to unfollow you. It's never been easier to hit hide. I think you just literally hold it and hit mute. The goal is you have to be present, but not annoying. And so something we have attention of is okay, groups, we want to promote groups. But if we just promote groups, if we just say, "Hey, did you give?" "Hey, did you come to this thing?" "Hey, did you sign up for that?" People eventually, they don't want to hear about it. I know people who've literally have looked at us for a year or more, followed us before they've come. Just trying to figure out, "Is this the right thing for me, or you? Are we cool? Will we fit together?" I think nurturing that relationship, and giving people an opportunity to explore, ask questions before they're ready to actually come and bite. Chantel Ray:                 I think one of the best ideas is, and I believe this is the reason why Elevation Church took themselves to the next level through social media, is because they did the best clips of Steven Furtick's sermon. Put the words, because it's really important to put the words on the video- Thomas Lane:               It is, yes. Chantel Ray:                 ... and then put that. Maybe an idea would be to have something like a little piece of paper that says best clip, or something like that. Thomas Lane:               That's cool, yeah. Chantel Ray:                 Whatever it is. Like you said, "What did I say today that was kind of that best clip, these three things from what I really got out of it?" And you have them turn it in at the end of church. And then those are the things, you take those small clips and put them on social media. Because if you talk for 30 minutes, the truth of the matter is, everyone has like three or four power statements. And that's what you want to promote on social media. Heather:                       Yeah. Because I'm a note taker in church. Every Sunday I write notes. And there's at least one to four I've starred because I'm like, "Oh, that's a great statement." Thomas Lane:               That's the thing you got to hold on to. Heather:                       Yeah. I got to go back and read that again, or I've got to remember that quote. And those are what people remember and take with them throughout the week. Chantel Ray:                 There's kind of a debate of people where they would say, "Okay. Should you have ... " Because sometimes it's just hard to keep up with too, right? Having all these different multiple pages, multiple things. Thomas Lane:               Scheduling them, they overlap. They feel different. That's hard. It's very hard. Chantel Ray:                 How do you coordinate that? Where does someone go, "Okay. Well, do I make a separate group? Do I make an internal group? How do I balance that?" Heather:                       There's pros and cons to it. Yeah, there's pros and cons. Obviously the cons is the logistical nightmare of it, and who manages them. And there's platforms out there that you can manage them easier through, and make sure everyone's getting messaged back correctly, et cetera. One of the pros to having them is I feel like ... For instance, we have our corporate Facebook page, and then we have office pages. Right? And so the difference between the corporate and the office page is that the office pages allows the people to feel like they're connecting to something a little bit smaller like, "This is my local office. This is where I ... They may be holding an event specific to my neighborhood." Right? Where the corporate page is giving you the overall vision, ideas, et cetera, with the company. There's pros and cons to it, but it can become overwhelming, and it's like, "What do I follow? If I'm following all of them it's confusing," and it can be a little much. Thomas Lane:               That can be confusing for sure. Chantel Ray:                 How do you measure the success of a post that you're doing and what you're doing? Let me give you an example of something for me. For us, we used to run ... our radio budget used to be like astronomical. Like over $30,000 a month on radio. And we've reduced it, and reduced it, and reduced it, and moved that money into Facebook. And so we'd ask people, "How did you hear about us," on a client information page. And we knew because our backend system said this person came from Facebook, but when we asked the client, because we try to it in three ways. Right? So we'd say, "How did you hear about us?" And they would say, "Radio." And we would be like, "Well, we know you ... the way you actually heard about us was through Facebook." Because there's multiple methods that people. How would you say ... is there any tools that you're doing right now that you'd say, "We know when we post A, B and C our attendance is going up," or, "When we're doing this, this and this, are we really tracking it?" Thomas Lane:               You can definitely look it ... I mean, if you're doing a promotion, for us, the things we love is that the ... I don't even know what you'd call it. I think you can save it or share. If you do a promotion or any post you can look at the logistics, the infographics behind it, and you can see how many people saved it. I love that. That is great. If we do one marketing campaign and it had three saves, and we did another one where 30 people saved it. For some 30 people saw that one and said, "I'm going to squirrel that away for later," or they hit share, and they shared it to a friend. Those for me- Chantel Ray:                 On Instagram it's a save? Thomas Lane:               Oh yeah. You can see who's interacting with it. Chantel Ray:                 I've never done that. I've never saved something. Thomas Lane:               It's super helpful because you're essentially saying ... You know, some people probably do a screenshot, or whatever. But if you save it or if you share it, you can look back it, those are the ones which get me. You know- Heather:                       You hit the little bookmark button. Thomas Lane:               Yeah. And it's yours. Heather:                       Oh. Oops I- Thomas Lane:               There you go. Learned something new. Heather:                       ... just saved something. They'll be like, "Well, I unsaved it." Thomas Lane:               Yeah. That shows us, for whatever reason, that was effective for someone to say this is ... And we don't know what they were doing with it. But if it's an invite that probably means they're squirreling it away from later. They're going to bring a friend, or they're doing whatever. For us, we measure interaction. Chantel Ray:                 Talk to us about a couple of posts that you did that you were like, "These were really successful." And then a couple things you did and you were like, "That tanked. That was-" Thomas Lane:               That was a nightmare. Chantel Ray:                 Yeah. Thomas Lane:               I think the tough thing about social media is you are promoting, but if it feels like your self-promoting it doesn't work. I think that for us the filter is, does this add value? And if it feels like we're hyping us, we're hyping me. "This is why our church is better than yours," or, "This is why ... " it don't work. Anything that's hype, that is, "Our church is great," it doesn't work. But if it's through the lens of, "We can add value to your family. We can come alongside you. We can answer these question. Oh, you're military, you're new. We know what it's like to be new. We're going to let you jump in real quick." I've seen that really connect with people, and those seem to work. But it's fun. If something new at the church, "Oh, we just hit a new attendance mark," nobody cares. I'm excited. Chantel Ray:                 That's what I was going to say, give me some more examples of bad ones. Thomas Lane:               I'm super excited, "Oh, we just ... " Because number ... it's just no one as excited about that. Heather:                       They don't like when you're tooting your own horn. Thomas Lane:               Yeah. Because I think that's how it comes across. As, "Hey, we just hit an attendance record. I'm through the moon excited." It's just kind of like, okay, whatever. The marking where we do, which I think gives people a picture of, "Okay. What does it feel like on a Sunday? How does this add value to my week?" If you're a single mom, if you're a mom and your husband's deployed, you got two little kids, you don't care if I hit an attendance number. You don't care. You could not care less. Heather:                       But you have a post for free .... "We're having a lunch for all of our military families." Thomas Lane:               Yes. And if you see a military family and you realize, okay, we have women's groups. We have a group for you. We want to support you. This is a free thing. That adds value, and that's something catches your eye. Chantel Ray:                 Can you specifically name one or two posts that you were like, "Wow. This specific post got so many likes, so many comments." Thomas Lane:               There's of Ally actually. One of Ally. Chantel Ray:                 Oh my gosh. So tell us about it. Thomas Lane:               Was it her and Lexi? I don't know who it was. It was just two people smiling with a sign that said, one said, "See you Sunday." One said, "Can't wait," or, "I'll save you a seat." Simple, smiling, bright colors caught your eye. People like faces. When you see a face we just stop. Heather:                       But you know why? Because that showed a face of different types of people in your congregation. Thomas Lane:               Exactly, two. Yeah. I think that did it. Heather:                       They were very relatable. Thomas Lane:               It was very clear what it was. [crosstalk 00:20:11] Heather:                       I remember that post. Thomas Lane:               There you go. That was one of our best posts. It got hundreds of ... I mean, it was nuts how many people saved it, shared it, liked it, came ... I mean, it was great. It'd be awesome to say, "Hey, what was the exact post you saw?" But we can't do that. But one day maybe. But that would be incredible. If someone said, "Hey, I saw that Ally post." But you know, people just- Heather:                       You could do something we're you're like, "If you bring to our welcome center the post that brought you here we have a welcome basket for you," or something. Like a welcome bag. Chantel Ray:                 Well, let me tell you a post that you did. I feel like if you are going to toot your own horn, because we just did a post. This month will be one of our biggest months we've ever had in the history of your company. And so what we did, we all got together, and it's funny because Ally did this like some kind of crazy dance. She did this crazy pump up. And everyone was doing something funny and crazy. Thomas Lane:               See, that adds value though. If it was just words that said, "We hit a new record," nobody cares. But you made it fun. For me to question is, does this add value? And maybe they don't know you, but it's funny. It's comical. It's creative. So the answer is yes, it value. Chantel Ray:                 Let's talk about reviews on Facebook. Do you have people reviewing you? What's your opinion? Is there anything to do to get people to do reviews, or video reviews? Or anything like that? Thomas Lane:               Sure. I mean, we give incentives to people. One of the ways we talk about what's important to us is all the little charities and ministries we support. We essentially give a donation per interaction. This is a way we're talking about what we value at the same time as encouraging people to share. We give the why behind it. I love to share stories of ... For y'all, it may be, "Oh, since so-and-so referred so-and-so look what happened." The other day I had one. I met this new family. They're military. They're from Destin, Florida. And we went for coffee. They brought their little kid. We were hanging out, and I asked, "How'd you hear about us?" And she saw hashtag ... She was looking at #virginiabeach. And one of the girls at church checked in, "I'm at Ascent, love it. Come hang out. #virginiabeach." She saw that in Florida, followed the church. Moved here, and now it's her church. It's that simple. It's that crazy. But people don't often see that loop. So I feel like it's my job to show them that loop. It's my job to say, "Hey, because you posted this, those three people now have a church." And I think that gets people's hearts engaged. Chantel Ray:                 See, and I think those stories, that's something you should ... Try to come up with a different one to say, "Here's why-" Thomas Lane:               Yeah, I want to do a video about it. Chantel Ray:                 Yeah. "Here's why you need to do it." Let's talk about being authentic, because I think that is a really good piece when you want to be authentic, because if you're not ... Like you said. Talk about that. What are some things that you do to make sure you are authentic? And give some real examples. Thomas Lane:               If you're on Instagram, it's really easy to do this on Instagram. Instagram your wall should be more a representation of you and your culture, who you are. If someone's like, "I'm looking at this community. I'm at this person. What are they like?" You want to look and say, "Okay. They're into this. They're into that." It's kind of like a resume. It's kind of like a little snapshot of your life. But the stories allow you to really be behind the scenes. The way we kind of treat it is stories are, I think it gives you the ability to let your hair down a little bit and be real. You're in the office, Ally's doing her dance. You get on the story and you're like, "Ally's doing her dance. That shows that we're fun." But you probably wouldn't put that on the front page of your business. You know what I mean? Chantel Ray:                 Right. Thomas Lane:               And you can even highlight stories. You can save them. For me, stories are more behind the scenes. They are announcements if you want to do that. "Oh, don't forget this giveaway's coming up. This party, come out." But your actual wall, that's where you want to say, "Okay. This is what it looks like and feels like to," in y'all's world, "To work with us. These are the results. This is how it'll change your life." But authenticity's important for sure. Chantel Ray:                 A final tip. If you're saying to someone, "This is the most important thing." If you had to give somebody their advice on social media what would you say that last bit of advice for them would be? Thomas Lane:               I would say be present. We've talked about starting and finishing. It's easy to start and have big dreams, and then quit. Constantly be in front of people and add value. I would say be present and add value. I think Gary V, he's got a little bit of a potty mouth, but he's got great content. But he talks about ... I think it's his book. I didn't read it, but someone summarized it for me. I think it's called Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. And it's kind of a model of social media, as I understand it. Once again, didn't read it. But the idea is add value, add value, add value, big ask. If it's constantly right hook, right hook, it doesn't work. But it needs to be like, "Hey, this happened to this family. Hey. We're going this thing." It's value, value, value, a big ask. If every time I posted it's, "Come to Sunday," it's too much. Chantel Ray:                 Too much. Thomas Lane:               It's exhausting. [crosstalk 00:25:10] It's too much. But if it's a little sermon clip, if it's a little worship chip, if it's a little line, if it's one of those star notes you made, then you say, "Okay. It's adding value." One, that keeps people around. And two, people should see y'all's brand and they should be encouraged. It should add value. They shouldn't see it and be like, "Oh gosh, what is it now?" That's the worst thing because you're this close to just getting unfollowed. You know what I mean? Chantel Ray:                 I love that. Thomas Lane:               People should be excited. It should brighten your feed. I tell the creative team, I say, "Look. I want to be the best thing they see on their feed. Let's brighten up their feed. What's it going to take?" And then if you see it through the lens of that I think everyone wins. People who follow you win, and you win because you connect them and help them in whatever they're trying to do. Chantel Ray:                 Yeah. And I would say, for me, if I was going to give someone advice I'd give too, one is that video is king. I just think that people don't realize. If you think about the Kardashians, the people love the Kardashians, and some people don't. But the people who do, they fell in love with them just for one reason. They feel in love with their personality on video. But I also think less is more. What I talked about with the best clips. Some people might be like, "I'm going to put the whole sermon on Facebook." Well, no. No one's going to listen to that because they don't have that kind of time. But they will listen to a 30 second best clip. Thomas Lane:               And for you to be able to see 30 seconds helps. Heather:                       With captions. Chantel Ray:                 With captions. Thomas Lane:               With captions. A lot of folks are doing, and I know why they're doing it. It's so brilliant. We haven't started it, but I'm going to do it. ESPN does it all the time, and they haven't said why they're doing it, but I know why they're doing it. They have like a little bar, and it fills up as it goes. As it starts you see it making progress, and you see, "Okay, this isn't that long." You know what I mean? You're like, "Okay. I have 20 seconds to do this." Because that's how we look. We're at a stoplight looking at this stuff. We're in line at Starbucks. And for you to be able to see, "Okay, this is 15 seconds," I think it makes you bite. Chantel Ray:                 Explain that. Explain that. Because I haven't seen that. Heather:                       It's a progress bar. Thomas Lane:               It's essentially a progress bar. And it shows, it essentially shows- Heather:                       I'll usually tap and be like, "38 seconds. Yeah, I'm not watching that." But this shows you- Thomas Lane:               Exactly. For us 38's long. But 10, you know what, I'll do 10. Heather:                       Yeah. And it shows you. So you're like, "Oh, it's already going." And then you're more apt to stay and watch the whole thing because you're like, "Oh, it moved," instead of, "How long is this?" Thomas Lane:               And sometimes it's like the sportscasters face. It's something creative. I haven't read an article on it, but I know that's why they do it, because it works. It totally works. It's brilliant. But yeah, we need to bring that in. Chantel Ray:                 Love it. Well, you guys were amazing as always today. And we hoped that you enjoyed this guy's show. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.  

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